Mindful Monday’s

Transcript

Michelle

Hello, and welcome to Mindful Monday’s. My name is Michelle Precourt, and it's a real pleasure to be with you here today. We're here to talk today about professionalism in the midst of workplace conflict. But before we do that, a couple of things I want to bring to the forefront. First, I'd like to pause and reflect on where I'm calling in from and I invite all of my viewers to do the same. I'm calling in from the indigenous lands of the Sḵwx̱wú7mesh people, otherwise known as Squamish, British Columbia. To our viewers, please share in the chat where you are calling in from. We'd love to hear from you. And of course, give us a thumbs up or maybe it's a thumbs down? Maybe you disagree with something that Julie and I are going to talk about today. And that's okay, we'll get into conflict, we can disagree today for sure. I also would like to share for any of our new viewers what Mindful Monday's is all about. This is around sharing thought leadership. And we have an amazing thought leader today. We're going to get to Julia right away. But this is around thought leadership on organizational issues, HR hot topics. We've talked about a number of different issues, career related stress, recruitment issues, mental health at work. And today, we are here to talk about conflict. So let me tell you about today's guest. Julia Menard is an expert on helping.  She loves to help leaders transform conflict. She's earned a master's in educational psychology through the University of Victoria and specializes in leadership. She's also done some amazing things, like that's not an achievement on it's own. She's a published author of a book called "Hold on to Yourself,  How to Stay Cool in Hot Conversations". And we've got a little gift for you. So you have to hang tight till the end to hear more about that. She also does a great job on a podcast called "On Conflict". And she's the founder of the On Conflict Leadership Institute. So welcome to Mindful Monday's. Julia, how are you today?

Julia

Good. Thank you for that wonderful introduction. And Michelle, I did also want to share that I'm on the with Saanich lands and known as Victoria, BC in the colonial context. So just wanted to also pay my honor and respect for being on these lands.

Michelle

Wonderful. Thank-you so much for that. So let's let's dive into things. I do want to just check who's online today. I'm going to take a quick peek at my other screen here. Hello, Felicia calling in from Brampton, Ontario. Nice to see you today. We've got Doreen, Doreen is calling in, I know she's in the Vancouver, greater area. She was also an amazing intern for Mindful HR Services. I hope you're doing well in your new role Doreen, let's talk soon. Elizabeth always shows up each and every time. I'm so thankful for your presence here today. And I know that there's going to be more guests. Well, there are there's at least 10 here who are live with us now. So we'd love to hear from you as well. So with that, let's get into today's conversation. And what we've titled this today is "Professionalism in the Midst of Conflict". And so the first place where I like to start is with professionalism. I'd love to hear your perspective on this Julia. What does professionalism really mean?

Julia

Thank-you, Michelle. And I love the title of the talk today, which you came up with. So I appreciate your creativity, and you're putting your finger right on the pulse because of course, a lot of times when I get called in as a mediator, it's because somebody has decided some thing is not professional or not respectful. Those two words can often be used interchangeably, although there's a bit more definition around respect, but professionalism I would define that as something that is a collective definition. What might seem professional to you, may be a different definition for me. For me, it might be okay that when I have my coffee, I leave it in the staff room because I know that other people seem to do that. I use coffee cups as a common one because I think a lot of people can relate to it and it's fairly light. But it might be okay for me because you know, I do other people's dishes or it's just something that I think is not a big deal. Whereas for you, your definition of professionalism might be that each person takes full responsibility for themselves. And they don't expect that somebody else is going to clean up after them and be like their mother. And so unless we have dialogue about our differences, then we won't be able to co create these definitions of what we mean together about where those lines are.

Michelle

Thanks for that real life analogy, because the office kitchens can be a bone of contention, for sure. Well, for me, what comes to mind is, of course, my background is in HR, as an HR consultant, I've worked with organizations to help them with setting up their foundations. And so, I think about code of conduct. That's clearly written policies and documentations. And, you know, that only goes so far. Of course, we're all human, we're all individuals, we all have our own belief systems and our own values that we bring. And so it's a bit like the bell curve, right? So ideally, in that bell curve, you've got people who are, you know, kind of in the middle somewhere, but there's always going to be the outliers, the people who are, you know, everything has to be pristine. And this idea of even dress codes.  We need to wear suits and ties and this sort of thing. And then the folks on the other side, who it's okay, if I show up to work with a mustard stain on my on my shirt, right? So a dress code is not something that I like to dabble in, because it's just, who really wants to be the dress code police anyway. But it gives you a bit of an idea that there's perceptions. Then there's simply some of the policies and the language that we use in the workplace, and what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. And sometimes, we really need those strong foundations to make sure that we're in line with what we deem as professional. The other thing about all of this is that we're not perfect. I think about the leaders of organizations who are trying really hard to lead in a way that is meaningful. It makes sense for the organization, makes sense for the organizational culture, makes sense for them. But guess what leaders make mistakes, too. I think when something like that happens, it's important to take a step back and go, you know what, I'm human, I made a mistake. How can we move on from this? So generally, there's a process right, Julia, this is why people hire people like you Julia for conflict resolution and issues around workplace challenges.  There's also the after effects and self care. And so I want to put a bit of a plug in for that, because I think we all evolve as people and there's this idea of professionalism or conflict, which we're going to talk to you a little bit further, so you need to take care of yourself. So whatever that might be, however, that might look like. I do want to share one technique that that I use. Of course, many of our viewers know that I've got a background in meditation and mindfulness. This is where Mindful HR Services came to be.  I've developed what I call the C.A.R.E model. This is the C.A.R.E model, mindful meditation that's available on Insight Timer, I'm going to share the link very shortly. But C.A.R.E is actually an acronym for connect.  Connect, allow, allow whatever it is, but without judgment, release that and then just breathe and exhale. So connect, allow, release, exhale. So that's a little bit further about once you get through the hard stuff, to take care of yourself, you know, and do it regularly. So I'm going pause there. I have no doubt you have more to add.

Julia

Well, I was just thinking as you were talking, firstly, I was noticing what you were saying in terms of caring and allowing and releasing and exhaling and I was feeling it in my body. So that's the first thing thank you for that, Michelle. And what I was thinking about with regard to professionalism and conflict, we can get so tight so quickly into our no states in conflict that having a reminder about how to re-attach to ourselves is so vitally important. And so I appreciate that you've got a  tool. And certainly, the book that I wrote Hold on to Yourself, How to Stay Cool in Hot Conversations came completely from that need. Now I see that need to be calm, as the starting point is that you need to move through the conversation. So, and it's the touchstone that you need to come back to in the conversation. And there's a lot of pieces around the conversation, that foundation is staying attached to yourself, the foundation is being mindful. And if you don't have the concepts and the skills to be able to navigate through that those differences, which is what I think I'm most passionate about, then you can continue to self soothe, but you going to have to do a lot of it, Michelle, because you're going to continue to have the issues come up. So it's going to have to be continually going back to the breath, because you're re-stimulated and re-stimulated. So you know, how do we engage with those differences and move through the lack of professionalism, which is what I think we're, we want to kind of dive in a little bit more deeper into as well.

Michelle

For sure. I always I have this expression, your best self  is your relaxed self. And that if you've got a way to self manage and self regulate, then you can move forward with a little bit, your mind is just going to be a little bit more clear. So I also want to just go back to our group here. A few more folks have joined us. Hi, Stefan calling all the way in from Massachusetts. Nice to see we've crossed countries today. And John, John McGraw, John is doing all kinds of work in with new Canadians and helping them to adjust to Canadian culture. So reach out to John if you need some support in that avenue. And I just shared as well, Julie, a couple of your links as well. So folks, please reach out to Julia, she's got so much so much knowledge to share. So let's take another look here at what we're going to talk about. So people are uncomfortable with conflict. Right. I do believe and I don't know, if it's just because of this discomfort. Let me pause there. Do you agree that most people are uncomfortable with conflict Julia?

Julia

Absolutely. And there's lots of reasons for that. Michelle. It's interesting. Oftentimes, I go into organizations and no matter what organization, whether it's healthcare, which I've been in, government education. I've been in so many contexts, victim offender mediation, school mediation, over 30 years, I've done a lot of different kinds of mediation, and people tend to pull me aside and tell me this secret about their culture. They'll say, you know, we avoid conflict around here, like I think I've heard that one before. And as I said, lots of reasons. One of them is our own contextual culture. Know where we've got more of a combative nature, where that's how we understand how we resolve conflict, we go to court, we go to war. That's the dominant paradigm. We don't engage in our differences. There's a great book called "The Third Side", which I don't think I mentioned in the resource list. But I absolutely adore that book, because it's an anthropologist, who had a chance to go to these different piece cultures, to see how do these peace cultures operate. And there are a couple of key things that we don't do in our culture that peace oriented cultures do. And I won't get into what they are right now. You can learn more, hang out with me. But essentially, it's another one of the reasons why we're so afraid and so uncomfortable with conflict. So I think the very first thing I'm going to, if you'd like I'd like to offer a way of thinking of conflict, that would be helpful for people.

Michelle

Yeah, absolutely.

Julia

Okay, so I'm going to say a couple things about how to look at it and see what lands on people. So one way to look at conflict is to think of it as a dance. Switch your metaphor, switch your picture, sometimes in workshops that I do, I have people pick a picture of what conflict seems to represent to them, you know, and they'll pick things like daggers or you know, an elephant smashing somebody's body, or, you know, drowning, these various kinds of images that are really getting into our un-resourced self. And so if we can re-imagine the image of conflict, that it's an opportunity for transformation, that it's the eye of the storm, that it's an actual dance that we're doing. So that's one thing I want to offer play around. Play around with what image you might want to choose to have around conflict. Is it a transformational opportunity regrowth or if it's something that's just bringing you down, so I'll offer something else. But I want to stop there for a minute.

Michelle

So what comes to mind when you say that? And I'd love to hear feedback from our live viewers here today just about what you said. Because what comes to mind for me is a visualization exercise, right? You're so right, we all have biases. So some of that is stemmed from things that we just can't change, right? Goes back to the fight, flight, freeze. This what happens in the amygdala when we're under conflict. And this goes back to, you know, decades of ancestral history when everyone was simply on guard all of the time, and who wants to be on guard all of the time, nobody. This idea of visualizing something that's softer, kinder, gentler, in terms of how we communicate with people, yet, if we don't, if there's a way of not personalizing it, and I think that's the hardest part, at least it's the hardest part for me, if I'm like, truly honest, is not personalizing this. And, and then there's also those organizations where it's just not part of the culture, there's an element of psychological safety. And what comes to mind for me is a book that I read by Patrick Lencioni, you and I talked about Lencioni and his work before. Five Dysfunctions of a Team, where in short, the team didn't feel safe to counter opinions, there was a fear of conflict. And when they did, it was like, Okay, well, yeah, Julia, just have your way. It's fine. Right. So that was passive aggressive. I'm curious. I'm going to take a look at the chat here to see what's happening here. So Hillary shared, let me put this up on screen here. Where are we here? Let me just take a look here. Because I think that there's some great comments in in the chat here. Let's take a look. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Video is just resetting from the beginning, there will be a recording 100%. Thank you for that, Hillary. If you're not catching it, some technical difficulties, you can always log off and log back on that might help. But let's hear from Elizabeth, Conflict starts as an individual dance but quickly morphs into a collective dance. Yeah. What do you think about that Julia?

Julia

Yeah, a couple things. One is, I think it's important that this collective have a common understanding about how we do conflict together. So that, you know, you mentioned code of conduct. There are gentler sort of less formal ways to start talking about how do we want to do conflict together. And I wrote my thesis for my master's degree on gossip in the workplace. It's available on my website, we didn't put it as a resource. But, you know, Elizabeth is putting her finger right on it in terms of the impact that conflict has. Because when you and I have a conflict together, Michelle, I'm going to go to Elizabeth and I'm going to complain to her about you. And you're going to go to your husband or whomever, another colleague in that little unit, water-cooler unit, you're going to complain about me, and then we're going to have this office division, which Elizabeth is referring to, I think. The way around that, as I said, is to have communal understandings. This is where we were kind of this has been a theme in our conversation today is, you know, what kind of culture do we want to be building together through mutual understanding. And I want to add one more piece around a way to think about conflict. And I think it relates to Elizabeth's comment, and that is to think of conflict, the way that the Sufi's speak about the tale of the eight blind men and the elephant, which I first heard at the Justice Institute where I teach, and I've been teaching for a long, long time at the Center for Conflict Resolution. The tale is told of the eight blind men and the elephant who are around an elephant. And each person has a perspective on what the elephant is like. And if you've got a more of a relativist perspective, you'll think, well, I think an elephant is like a rope. And then you'll say, Michelle, as you were talking about Lencioni you know, if somebody else has a has the ear and says an elephant is like a fan. Then in a relativist perspective, it'll just go well then that's fine, you have your perspective, I'll have mine. But actually, where the power is, is not to disagree. Because your reality is a reality, I need to understand the greater truth of the elephant. This brings my perspective somewhere else. I can't take it personally, Michelle, why would I take it personally, that you're standing on a different part of the elephant, I want to know about what your reality is, I want to understand it, I don't necessarily want to agree with it, you're standing at the trunk and you're holding a lake, I want to honor that. And I want to understand it, because then I'll understand the bigger elephant and I want to share with you my reality of holding on to the ear of it. This is a very key philosophical cognitive construct that shifts us from thinking you're wrong. Your perspective is something I disagree with, I need to negate it's actually your perspective is going to bring richness to this conversation. It doesn't negate mine. We need all these perspectives to get a deeper understanding. And I think that's the true definition of collaboration.

Michelle

Stepping away from I'm being judged and recognizing that there's an opportunity, there's an opportunity to really listen, tune in. And if that judgment is coming from likely, our habits or patterns of the past, this is all around mindfulness, right. Be mindful of those triggers, then you really have an opportunity to what you were saying is really listening to the different perspectives. And so I think there is a real gift in that.

Julia

Yes.

Michelle

Julia, we know that conflict is in, in short, good for us. We can learn, we can grow. It's good for organizations, good for personal and professional development. But what should we do if we're like, Okay, this style of communicating at work isn't working for us anymore? What advice would you have for leaders who are ready to become more conflict competent?

Julia

Yeah, a couple things, I guess, firstly, is to continue to hold on to themselves, whether it's through using some of you know, getting mindfulness training, or whatever, because I think we really need to be humble as leaders. And to connect with our hearts, you know, and HeartMath has done so much good research in the last couple of decades, really, about the power of the heart and how, when we are operating from our heart we're sending, we're actually sending more signals to our, from our heart to our brain than our brain is sending down to our hearts. So that's the very first thing I think. And then secondly, to educate yourself, there's so much good information out there about how to have a difficult conversation in a respectful way. You can legislate it, you can create ground rules, you can have policies, but unless you're living that, firstly, from your heart, and modeling the way and secondly, through engaging constructively with conflict, so getting clear on getting a model, whether it's my model, which I have one, a difficult conversations model, or you learn nonviolent communication as a model, fierce conversations, there are a lot of models out there, but coming together as a unit as a team, and deciding, okay, this is how we're going to do conflict together.

Michelle

Yeah, and then there's, you know, conflict styles. I talked a little bit about ancestral history, cultural background, gender, occupation, all of these types of things. I think that there are some career occupations that are maybe a little bit more like this, inherently, and others that aren't and so even going back to like things like debate school, debating in school. I was always intimidated by those sorts of things, because it was always like, what do you mean, you're countering my opinion right now, right here, and I got to respond. I can't do that. Right. I also think that it's a bit about training, right? How you would train your body by going to the gym, how you would practice yoga I'm a yoga practitioner. All of these things require effort. And sometimes you need an expert. Sometimes you need someone like Julia to help stimulate the conversation. And sometimes it's just about, let's talk about this. Can we just talk about this as a team as an organization, and see where it seen where it takes you or it could also be, I've got it in front of me here, but “Five Dysfunctions of a Team”. Maybe you pick up a book like this, I really appreciated this book and you dive into it as a leadership team. Those are are some ideas.  I'm just taking a look at time. Holy smokes, amazing how quickly time goes. Final question for you, Julia. What does it mean to have a healthy conflict culture?

Julia

Well, you know, you've mentioned Lencioni, spoke a couple of times, I really liked his later book, The Advantage, because with The Advantage, he takes the “Five Dysfunctions of a Team”, and he makes it a first principle to understand how you build a healthy team. And I think The Advantage was written in 2012, or something. But essentially, that's how I think you would define it, which is this ability to be able to firstly have this psychological safety, emotional safety. And that has to do with continuing to tune into the heart, right, that's what will create the safety, and then learn those skills on how to engage with conflict. And I'll just very briefly, I know, we only have a couple of minutes. But I do want to refer to one skill you were talking about conflict as a skill, like yoga would be a skill, absolutely is a skill. And I'll tell you one that's very powerful, which is to be in the practice of separating out my evaluations about what you're doing. My judgments or my interpretations to get practiced as an individual, as a leader, as a team get practiced on separating that, from what are the objective facts about something. And it sounds simple in theory, and it is simple in theory, but in practice, to support each other to realize, oh, even something as simple as your late is an evaluation, my understanding about 915 and your understanding about 908. So I just wanted to leave it on that note that there are very demonstrable skills that I help people do to move through conflict, that move people to more love, more peace, more heart more understanding, I've seen it happen again and again and again. And I'm very confident that there are key things we can do to help us move through conflict and transform it to be healthy.

Michelle

You're so passionate about this, Julia, I really appreciate. Julia reached out to me to be a guest on Mindful Monday's. And I'm so glad that you did. Julia, thank you so much. We have something to share with our viewers here. There's a free gift here from Julia. So I'm going to drop this in the chat. Julia, can you share a few words about this?

 Julia

Yes, it's actually a tool that I mentioned in my book, Hold onto Yourself. And it connects with mindfulness, which is why I thought it'd be a nice thing for today's show. Essentially, it's a tool that shows you if you're in a healthy or relaxed or heart based state, that's the place that we want to develop and continue to grow. If you're in a yellow state, kind of slightly triggered. There's other things you need to be doing. It's that deep breathing and kind of coming back to yourself. But if you're in a red zone, you're highly triggered. I've learned through my own experience as a mediator, that is not the truth, nothing good. If you think that's true, that's true. Nothing good will come from this conversation. So you need to take a break, not abandon the conversation, but take a break for five minutes, 10 minutes, an hour, whatever it is, and commit to coming back. So it's a mindfulness tool that helps people think about green, yellow, red zones for ourselves.

Michelle

Thank you so much. Tap into that. I put these links in the chat. I know there's been some tech issues today. I don't know if that's a LinkedIn issue but the recording will be available. Of course, you can reach out to Julia as well. She has a monthly newsletter. I have a monthly newsletter. It's a great way to stay in touch with what's happening. And to close, I want to thank all of our viewers for your comments in the chat and some resources that were shared there. Thank you, Felicia. I'm taking a look at who's here. Ronnie, Elizabeth, Barbara, Stephan, Hillary, thank you all so much for showing up today. And in terms of what's happening next month, I'm working on something exciting! What I can tell you, I can't share yet but what I can tell you is that next Mindful Monday is on October the 17th. Of course, that is a Monday. Stay tuned here on LinkedIn to find out more. And thank you again, Julia, for your presence and for sharing your knowledge.

Julia

Thank-you.

Michelle

And until next time, everyone be well.