Mindful Monday’s

A key component to change is ensuring all stakeholders are prepared for what is coming. This includes a strong communication strategy around process and policy changes, but there is also the humanistic or emotional side to consider. In this episode of Mindful Monday’s we discussed organizational change from a holistic viewpoint and shared tools and techniques to support a seamless business transition while addressing the people-side of change.

Speakers:

• Michelle Precourt, Mindful HR Services Inc.

• Angelique Meyer, Optimum Talent

• Ahmed Rammay, Marketing by Rammay

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Transcript

Michelle

Welcome to Mindful Mondays. My name is Michelle Precourt hello, everyone. Nice to see you, Angelique.

Angelique 

Nice to see you too, Michelle.

Michelle

Hello Ahmed.

Ahmed 

Hello. I'm just checking the LinkedIn side of things. And it looks like the timer is still going on that and so it might not be quite live yet.

Michelle

Okay, very good. Well, we'll just jump right into things. And as that timer is ticking off, technology, we got to work with what we got. So for some of our folks who may not be familiar with Mindful Mondays, let's just start with, what the heck is Mindful Mondays? So this is something that Ahmed and I have been working on for a number of months here now. And Mindful Mondays is really about bringing folks together who are subject matter experts like Angelique today. And this is all in around HR hot topics. So some of the things that we've talked about this year have been mental health and wellness in the workplace, career stress, and employee engagement strategies, and today we have another interesting HR topic to talk about in and around organizational change. So from there, Ahmed, I will let you take the reins.

Ahmed 

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Michelle. Hello, good morning, and welcome to everyone on the call today. Today, as Michelle said, we are going to be covering a holistic approach to organizational change. We have Michelle Precourt with us who of course, is the, excuse me, Principal Consultant at Mindful HR Services. And we have Angelique Meyer with us who is with Optimum Talent, and they provide HR consulting services. Angelique is the vice president of leadership development and the market leader for VC. She comes to us with 20 years of experience consulting with senior leaders across multiple industry sectors where she helps organizations grow and develop high-performing leaders through coaching, assessments and group learning. Working in both consulting and corporate roles, Angelique strives to make a difference by aligning talent strategies with organizational needs. And then myself if you don't know me from the other calls, Ahmed Rammay here, I help small and medium-sized companies with their marketing, everything from brand and personal strategy to regeneration and anything in between. But we are here to talk about a holistic approach to organizational change. So a key component to change is ensuring all stakeholders are prepared for what is coming. This includes a strong communication strategy around processing policy changes, but there's also the humanistic or emotional side to consider. In this episode of Mindful Mondays, we will discuss organizational change from a holistic viewpoint, and share tools and techniques to support a seamless business transition while addressing the people side of change. So before we jump into the questions, I just want to let everyone know if you haven't attended one of these before, we're taking questions, we're taking comments, and we want you to engage with us. You know, if you're on LinkedIn, please go into the comment section. And I'll be watching the comments as we go along. And I'll interject those comments as rolling through questions and all of that. And then of course, if you have anything, we can always address it at the end as well. So welcome, and thank you again for joining with us. So my first question, I'm going to kick it over to Michelle. So Michelle, as a curator of Mindful Mondays, tell us about your thinking around the title of this live broadcast, a holistic approach to organizational change, what do you mean by holistic in this situation?

Michelle

My husband is going to roll his eyes when I talk about the left brain and the right brain. But it's true, we can be very left brain focused, and focus on the process and the procedures and the policies. And all of that is really important. But when I think of holistic, I also want to bring in this right brain and this is the self-management, self-regulation, that the emotions around change, we may not even recognize what's going on because there can be so much going on. Unless we take a step back and really recognize you know, what is going on with me? Why am I feeling so uncomfortable? And this is where the work that I do around mindfulness can help folks to, you know, take a step back, and recognize that change is hard. This is, it's a very vulnerable time. And of course, we need all of those things that I talked about, process and and policy and experts like Angelique but we also need to talk about the vulnerability that comes with change. So that's what I mean by the holistic side of organizational change.

Ahmed 

I love it. And I really appreciate that you kind of gave that opening introduction into it so that we're all you know, able to set the same page and be on the same understanding of what we're here to talk about. So I love that. Thank you. Angelique, when Michelle, reached out to you, why did you say yes to being my guest today? And I know that sounds like kind of a funny question. But why did you want to speak on this topic of organizational change? And there's so much to cover, but, you know, specifically this, I think it's so relevant today. But I'd love to hear your perspective on why.

Angelique 

Yes, well, all of us have been through a lot of change over the last two years. I mean, if you work in a large organization, or you work at home, we've all been forced to adapt to this new reality. And so organizational change has been a big topic because we're all living through it right now. So I wanted to share some of my personal perspectives, what I'm hearing from my clients and actually know some of my own lived experiences.

Ahmed 

I love it, I mean, the fact that you're able to share your own experiences with our listeners, and be able to bring in that perspective of, you know, not just the organizational side, but some of the personal side of that it really helps to let people understand where we're coming from, and you know, how this topic might be relevant to them, and how we can probably provide some insight for them. So Angelique, building on that, given your extensive work with leaders, in your opinion, what are the must-have tools for successful and seamless business change?

Angelique 

Business change? That's a huge question. I mean, I wish I had that simple five-step process.

Ahmed 

Great questions for Wednesday mornings, right?

Angelique 

Yeah, you could just like, you know, follow these five steps. And then, you know, magically, you will have this amazing change management process. But it's not that simple, right, what we've learned, you know, I am actually Prosci certified. So I've gone through the traditional change management process, talking about, you know, formal communication strategies, communications plans, looking for your sponsor, and all of that. But what we found is, you know, in, over the last two years, during the pandemic, those traditional ways of training, change, and management haven't worked as well. What we found, what we teach a lot is the people side of changes is that people always aren't predictable. Like they, you can't just put out a communications plan and say, Okay, everybody follow this new communications plan? Why? Because human beings are complicated, right? We don't all absorb information, in the same way, we don't all have the same needs, and nothing's been more apparent over the last 18 months is that we're all not starting from the same place. You know, there's a famous quote out there, a famous saying out there, you know, we're all in the same storm, but we're not in the same boat. Like we're all starting from different places. So I think, as a leader, of course, I always talk from the leadership perspective, if you're managing two people or 100 people, it's the same considerations, you really need to take stock, an analysis of your your people, how are your people feeling? What are the tools and resources that your people have? Is this new to them? Is this not new to them? One of the biggest things, you know, we teach in our change management workshops is, you know, the bigger the change, the bigger the emotional reaction folks are going to have that work, it's going to feel so little changes, you know, the feeling associated that with that is going to be you know, probably manageable. But these big changes, where you're asking folks to do things in a new way, with new technology or new resources, the change, the how, that's going to feel is going to be monumental for some people. And then of course, you know, we talk about resiliency, some people have just naturally are more resilient, and some people are still building their resiliency. So it's hard to say, you know, you follow these five steps, and it's going to be great. You know, it's, it's all about the individual human experience. And if you are leading 100 people, you know, and to think about, oh, I have to connect with all 100 people, and I have to make sure that everybody's okay. Yeah, yeah, it's that kind of, it's that kind of job. And there's lots of tools and, and tricks on how you could reach out and engage your folks like, like something like this and set up a chat and, and just get people to share their experiences. You know, I think the biggest thing is having people share their experiences, where are they starting from? What resources do they have? Have they done something like this before? You know, what works for them, what won't work for them, and just creating the space for people to speak up and share their experience? And that's what I love about what Michelle is doing is this is part of creating that space for people to listen in. And think about, yeah, well, how has my lived experience of all these changes been? You know, have I been supported? Have I had the right tools? You know, what other questions do I have? And sometimes it's not even knowing what questions you want to ask? It's listening to other people's stories that say, okay, yeah, that was a question I had. I didn't know I had it. But now that I've heard your story, yes, that's exactly how I'm feeling. So storytelling is hugely powerful.

Ahmed 

Absolutely. And I love what you said earlier, both human beings are complicated, you know, when we look at organizational change, or business change, yes, of course, we think of the processes and the, you know, the business side of things of what do we need to do, but there's this, you know, of course, the human element of it. And forgive me if I pronounced your name wrong, but Eugene Herbert in the comments mentioned that they just started a huge organizational change that began in July of this year, where they've grown from 1700 to almost 4000 employees. So when you think of the complex nature of that kind of change, she's saying, change is an understatement for the entire company right now. And absolutely, because everything from processes to marketing, to branding, to client services, but all of that touches different people. And there's that human element of it. And that complexity that comes with it, and people's emotions and feelings and how they're, they're going on about it. So I love that you said that you just call it out. People are complex. Michelle, before I jump to the next question, do you have anything to add to that?

Michelle 

Just that complex, side of life, something super small, or something super big, it can trigger something within us that makes us either fearful or just feeling, you know, so overwhelmed that we can, you know, feel like we need to talk through things. So I think as leaders, recognizing the folks who need to be heard, and then for those other folks who, and these are the folks that are going to be knocking on the doors perpetually, right? I've got more questions, more questions, more questions, and making sure that you make time for those folks. And there are different ways of doing that, right? That doesn't mean that you have to have your door open all of the time. But where can staff get their information? So like you said, good suggestion, hosting a call like this, using the technology that's out there. This is another way of doing like a town hall meeting, right, all hands meetings. Back in the day, when we could bring everyone together, we would do that, of course. But then there's, you know, little snippets of information that you can send out whether that's by email, FAQs, the other part that I think it's really important to address, the pandemic has taught us this is today, this might be the direction that we're going. But know that tomorrow, it might change. Right? Think about the public health orders. It's okay to go into restaurants, it's not okay to go into restaurants, it's okay to go into the office, it's not okay to go into the office, it's okay to bring people into your homes, it's not okay to bring people into your homes like, I don't know this, I think this is a really good test of our change. Our resilience around change is that we are facing this every day in our personal lives. So bringing to your point, bringing those lived experiences. It's very applicable to the workplace, we're really not that different change in an organization, or change at home isn't really that different. There might be more strategies that we have to put into place. But for anyone with kids, it's the same thing. And I'm not at all suggesting that employees are kids, I am not at all suggesting I am not.

Angelique 

Sometimes there isn't that big of a difference.

Michelle

But it's about the communication that is really important.

Ahmed 

Absolutely. And I think you know, as we think through a lot of that communication is such a critical thing. Because as you're saying this yo-yo effect, even just as we're going through this shared experience of this global pandemic, it's a very good example of whether it's in the workplace or not, we all have these shared experiences. And that communication is what helps calm everything. And I think this is probably a good segue Michelle, into the next question I wanted to ask you, actually was, where do you see your clients struggle with the most change? And what advice do you have for viewers who might be in the midst of change? And this actually dovetails a question we had come in on the comments by Hia. She asked what tools do you recommend to measure people's readiness for change? And do you think standards, standard tools, right usually get a real indicator? And so I think that it's kind of a dovetail to the initial question I wanted to ask you. So it's good timing. But just to reiterate, the question was, where do you see your clients struggle the most with change? And what advice do you have for our viewers who might be in the midst of change?

Michelle

Yeah. For the folks who are in the midst of change, take what you need, take the time that you need to really sit back and reflect on what's going on with yourself. Whether you are the one leading the change, or whether you're the one that is in that change, what is it that you need? And maybe you don't know what it is that you need? Because sometimes there's that I've developed a bit of an exploratory question that Ahmed, I'll ask you to drop into the comments there. But it's a little bit like a SWOT exercise, but a little bit different. So what are the tools and resources that you can leverage? As you're going through this change? Who's your ally? Who might be a threat? Where are their opportunities? These are just questions that I asked folks who are going through a change. So whether or not like I said, you're the one leading the change, or in the change, even the ones that are leading the change, you are still going through some emotions around this. And this is where the techniques that you use around mindfulness can be helpful, of just taking a step back, because sometimes that expression, you can't see the tree for the forest. Because we are so caught up in all of what's going on. And in addition to that, for leaders, we feel like we need to, you know, put on this, this strong face. And at times, yes, we do. But even in those opportunities, when you're putting on, you know, the strong, we're here for you, who's here for you, like, who are your allies, so you don't have to be everything to everyone, you might be able to go to someone else on your senior leadership team to, you know, let everything go right behind those closed doors if you need to. And, and sometimes, even not behind closed doors, employees really appreciate vulnerability. Everyone is vulnerable. And, you know, letting your letting your guard down a little bit can be okay, there can be that appreciation. The other thing that I want to talk about here is a question about readiness for change. So here's, here's just a really simple example. I might be willing to fly a plane. But am I ready to fly a plane? So I may have the the motivation, the drive, the energy, I'm going to get in a plane tomorrow and fly this plane tomorrow. That's the willingness, but the readiness part is, Have I gone to flight school? Have I studied? Have I ever been in a plane before? Maybe that's a good place to start. Right. So I might be willing, but I might not be ready. And these are also some of the conversations that I helped facilitate around the readiness and willingness for change.

Angelique 

Yeah, those are two distinct distinct parts, is, you know, we have some, in this case, we were forced into change. And a lot of companies, they are told that we're going to change, and then your employees may not be ready, like there isn't a readiness for it. And so we need to create that readiness like we need to be able to tell the story. So it's all about being able to tell the benefits of the outcome. That's where I like to start is, is tell the truth. Like where it's going to be hard, it's not going to be straightforward. We don't have all the answers. However, what I see is that the end of this, it's going to be great, because and then really, you know, lay out the path and lay out the end result and get people connected to how it's going to be when we're through the storm. Like what's what is the benefit at the end of the journey? Because I think once people have a picture, like a visual of what it's going to look like at the end, going through the hard times may not seem so daunting when they have a strong visual of what it's going to look like on the other side. So that's, you know, that's one of the things that we talk about. And as leaders sometimes like you said, when things change, tell the truth, like be vulnerable and just stick to the facts tell the truth and most people can handle Yeah, it didn't quite play out the way we thought so we're making these adjustments and we want you to bear with us and stick with us and give us input and ideas on you know, other ways we can approach this. So we do, I do have some strategies, and these are some strategies to change. So allow time to grieve the change versus going for a quick fix, most of us just want to implement the change and do a quick fix. And what we're learning is that you know, that doesn't allow for all the human emotion processing time, you know, allow time to people to socialize to the idea and to get connected with the outcome. And then, of course, expect a temporary decrease in productivity, we're not going to be able to make all these changes and still maintain the same level of productivity. So just have some realism or some compassion, if not everybody is able to keep up their level of productivity. And of course, as a leader be visible, you know, be accessible to answer questions. And I know a lot of people say, I've answered this question three times already. It's like, yeah, and you'll have to answer the same question six more times because not everybody heard you the first three times. Right? So just be mindful that you will have to answer the same questions over and over and get involved, right, and have a strategy for recovery. So if somebody is having trouble with the technology, or they're not, you know, keeping up with the rest of the team, you know, what is the strategy? How are we going to help them, help them get back on track, again, avoid deflecting and minimizing or ignoring concerns? I know, once you've said, you know, said what the change is going to be answered the questions, it's easy to ignore all of the people that are still having a hard time, but it's important that we still sit down and we still have these conversations. So maybe it's a different peer group, or somebody else chatting with them. But it's still important to keep having the conversations, even though it feels like you've already had the same conversation six times, and then stay in touch and be available as things change and evolve. And of course, that's what you were talking about earlier, Michelle with that open door policy is, yeah, if in the virtual world, sometimes it doesn't seem like we can have an open door, but give people permission to contact you. On you know, Teams or Slack, or however the instant instant messaging systems work, just, you know, let people have an opportunity to feel like they can come to you. And, of course, you know, some of the key points to remember, of course, in as we all do, these change, we go through change management is change has a human cost, right, there's always a price that we're going to pay in our people. So remember that that isn't always recognizable at the beginning. And sometimes halfway through the project, you realize that you're going to need to invest more in something or someone and that's okay, that's totally normal. And it's, it's okay. And you can minimize that cost yourself and employees just by talking about it, rather than having it sprung on you afterwards. Change is emotional, right? So remember, that change is never linear, and it's always an emotional thing. You are the guiding coalition. So remember, I was saying about telling this end story at the beginning, like vision, the future, what is it going to look like when we're all done, or we're on the other side, make sure that you keep that at the forefront. And remember, this is one of my favorite quotes is there is no growth, there is no change without growth, right? And growth isn't always comfortable or easy. So anytime you change anything, it's going to require some growth, and it's going to be uncomfortable for folks. And so we should be prepared for that and be accepting. So I think, you know, be accepting of what happens, even if it doesn't fall in what you think should happen.

Ahmed 

I love that. Thank you so much for sharing those. I did share your strategies to change the quick notes that you had there in the chapter for anyone who wanted to jot those down. And we can add them again later as well. But I wanted to just open it up here and ask if anyone had any questions as we're going to be winding down here just to be mindful of time. So if anyone has any questions, they can drop them in the chat here. So while we're waiting for those questions to come in, if there are any extras I just wanted to highlight on entering something you were saying about the brain not liking ambiguity, and how to be direct and how to communicate multiple times. It's so true, you'd like to your point, we might, especially as leaders say, well, we've told you this a number of times and we've said the same thing over and over. And, you know, we feel like you're hitting your head against the wall. But there's a point to that we, you know, so in marketing, if we use that as an example, we say someone needs to hear see a message at least seven times, and I've added that we've all heard that. But it's really real. And especially when you're talking about change because you're trying to motivate behaviours to do something or to change in a certain way. And that ambiguity that the brain doesn't like, is sometimes calmed by just hearing that answer one more time or hearing it a different way.

Angelique 

What somebody else said, Yeah, somebody else said, besides the leader, or the change management or the sponsor, getting everybody to say the same thing. So remember what I said about the story of the employer, you are in marketing, right? So when you're talking about the story you're trying to create. So as the leader, you're trying to create the story of what the end is going to look like. And you need everybody to be able to articulate that story and say it over and over again. And that's how you get people to buy in.

Ahmed 

Organizational changes market, I like it, that's gonna be the title of the next book. Michelle, how about yourself, do you have any thoughts or closing comments you'd like to share? Before we wrap up here?

Michelle

Just I want to say thanks to the folks who dropped in some messages in the chat you all have, you know, hit the nail on the head. It's not a top-down approach. It's a multi-pronged approach. There are some tools or resources out there available. Angelique, again, is an expert in change from a real process perspective. And, and then, of course, I come into it from the emotional side of the world, my HR background, but there's, you know, so many different angles that you can take, the biggest thing is that, yes, the structure is important. But being sure that you touch base regularly, and tap into the folks that you know that the loudest voice isn't the only voice. So make sure that you also are tapping into those folks who might be just sitting back and not sure how to address their concerns.

Angelique 

Yes, I see Eudine, put in the scarf model. Yes, the scarf model. Many of you know what that is from David Rock. And it's a great way to understand what folks triggers are. And of course, change will hit all five of those triggers.

Michelle

Yeah, exactly.

Ahmed 

So what I've done is I've just dropped in a couple of helpful links in the chat there. So if you scroll up and see there's been a couple of more comments that have come up since. So, Carlos is asking what are the best strategies you have used to ensure all employees have readiness to change?

Angelique 

Well, you're not going to probably like this, but it's you have to talk to everybody like they have to tell you, right, it's asking the questions and seeing where they're at, and, and it's just engaging with them. Because remember, we use the quote, we're all in this storm together but we're all in different boats, like we all have different levels of experience, different resources available to us technologies, and comfortability with technologies. And if you can, I know for those of you that lead larger groups, this can be very challenging, but you've got to ask people, you can do it with a survey. Right? So it generates some sort of a survey that you can start asking some questions to get a sense of where your folks are at, you can start a peer group, right? So you have some executive roundtables, or call it the team roundtables to get people to speak up and share their experiences. So the only way you're going to know is if you ask people, and you can either do it one-on-one, or you can do it in a group format, or you can do it in a survey. But it's really important that we start to that you actually hear from folks now some people are going to know exactly what they need. And some people are going to have no clue what they need. Right. So where do you so how do you deal with that? Right? And, you’ve got to start with a conversation and start asking the questions. So as you know, come prepared with some questions to kind of get people thinking about it.

Ahmed 

I love that the questions part, you need to engage those people in those conversations. And the best way is to be asking really strong, really great questions. Right. So I think, you know, looking at the clock here, I think we are at time. So I just want to thank everyone who made the time to join us today again for taking that time being with us and wanting to close out the year with our last Mindful Monday of the year with them. Michelle, can you maybe tell us about the next Mindful Monday happening on January of 2022? Well, it's a mouthful to say I can't believe we're already getting up to 2022. Right. Let's hear about it.

Michelle

This is a bit of a continuation of change, but we're coming to it from a different angle. The title of this one is rewiring the brain for change. And I'm really excited to be talking with Sandra McDowell. She is the founder of e-Leadership Academy who leverages cognitive science to help organizations thrive. So that is on January 10, 2022.

Ahmed 

Love it. That's going to be a really great session. I'm excited to be hosting it for you next year. And getting back into this with everyone. At this time. I think we are good to close. We've had some great comments. Thank you again, everyone, for joining us this morning. And we'll see you next year. Happy Holidays and have a Happy New Year.

Angelique 

Thanks, everyone.

Michelle

Happy Holidays everyone. Until next time, be well and take care. Bye bye.

Ahmed 

Thank you, Angelica, for being with us today.

Angelique 

My pleasure, everyone. Thank you.

Michelle

Thank you both.